Name: Iran Negotiates with Europe, Rejects Nuke Talks with U.S.
Uploaded: 2025-06-22T15:19:00Z
Duration: 8 min 18 s
Description: Journal Editorial Report: Paul Gigot interviews Mark Dubowitz.

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Journal Editorial Report: Paul Gigot interviews Mark Dubowitz.

Iran Negotiates with Europe, Rejects Nuke Talks with U.S.

Welcome to the "Journal Editorial Report." I'm Paul Gigot. President Trump is buying himself more time to find a diplomatic way out of the war between Israel and Iran. The White House announced Thursday that Trump will decide within the next two weeks whether to order US Military action while he says there is a chance for negotiations. The foreign ministers of Germany, France, and the UK are holding emergency talks in Geneva with Iran over the weekend. But Iran is refusing to hold further nuclear talks with the US. Israel's Military is not backing down, intensifying strikes on regime targets in Tehran. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has been praising Trump's efforts to help him.

The partnership with the United States, the partnership with President Trump, with whom I speak to almost every day is incredible. They're participating in the protection of the skies over Israel and its cities with Thaad missile batteries that are in Israel with ships that are on the shore of Israel with their pilots that are fighting alongside our pilots to knock out drones. I think it's a remarkable cooperation.

But Netanyahu appears to be ready to go it alone if need be, telling Israeli public broadcasting quote, "We will achieve all our objectives and hit all of their nuclear facilities. We have the capability to do that, not asking for US green light, whether US President Donald Trump wants to join or not. That's entirely his decision. Let's bring in Mark Dubowitz, CEO of the Foundation for Defense of Democracy. It's good to see you again, Mark.

Thanks for having me, Paul.

So what do you make of Iran's declaration here that it will not negotiate anymore with the United States as long as Israel is still attacking?

Yeah, the Iranians wanna negotiate. It's really their only way out. And so what they'll do is go through the Europeans. They'll go through the Russians, but at the end of the day, they got a choice. They can go to Oman and negotiate with the Americans or President Trump's gonna go Fordow and drop 30,000-pound massive orange penetrators on their last remaining nuclear site.

So you don't think the gambit of going to the Europeans who do wanna play in this, right, they always do?

Always do.

And they, you know, maybe they'll propose some half-house deal or something. And then there's Putin, who the President has mentioned once or twice as a possible intermediary here. You don't think that's a possibility that Trump might go for that?

Oh, I think there's an absolute possibility. I mean, I think Putin wants to preserve the Islamic Republic, it's a close ally.

Right.

And the Europeans wanna play in the game. And to be fair, I mean, I think the French are actually pretty tough on this. I think they wanna strip Iran of its nuclear weapons capabilities. So if they can get a deal and offer the President something that permanently strips them of those capabilities, I think President Trump will jump at it.

If they can strip them of all of everything including enrichment, right?

Big if.

Yeah. Well, it's a big, big if, I mean, you've been skeptical that Iran will ever go for that, right?

I've been very skeptical. I mean, at the end of the day, if Khomeini gives up his Nuclear Weapons Program, Fordow, this heavily-buried fortified site, he's enriched material, he centrifuges everything. The Islamic Republic is no longer the Islamic Republic. I mean, that's it, Khomeini has no serious ballistic missile capabilities left standing after all of this. And he has no nuclear weapons standing after this. And these proxies have been severely degraded. He's lost everything that he's built over 30 years.

So what do you make of President Trump's decision to give two more weeks a decision? Earlier this week, I think many of us thought that he was on the cusp of a decision to make a strike on Fordow at least. And now we've got two weeks. What's behind that?

Well, either President Trump is continuing the deception operation that he ran with the Israelis last week that caught the Revolutionary guards, both figuratively and literally in their beds because the Iranians were assuming there was gonna be another round in Oman on Sunday. And that President Trump had red-lighted Israeli strikes. And, of course, that's not what happened. He had green-lighted them and there was gonna be no round, there was gonna be an Israeli round basically, coming from the skies. So maybe it's part of that deception operation, or maybe President Trump genuinely wants to give the Iranians that opportunity to reach that deal. And he thinks two weeks is what they need. I don't think, I think they need two hours. I mean, it's one piece of paper. This is not a complicated deal. We're coming in as President Trump has said, you're gonna blow up your facilities under US supervision or the Israelis or we are gonna blow that up militarily.

Is there, I mean, there's some scuttlebutt in Washington that the President is worried about a possible regime change in Iran that some Israelis are pushing for that, he worries and he's worried that potentially if how many and the Revolutionary Guard fall, then who, what's there? It's gonna be instability and a bigger problem. Is that what you're hearing?

I'm hearing that and I think the President knows that it's only one person that he should be listening to and speaking to. And that's Prime Minister Netanyahu. I mean, we've got a motley crew in the Israeli Government who are speaking and speaking in their own voices for their own interests. And I think even the Minister of Defense sometimes goes off without coordination.

That never happens in the US, of course, ever.

We're well-coordinated, we all march together. But President Trump should know that the Prime Minister Netanyahu, who's concerned about one thing, and that is getting rid of Iran's nuclear weapons capability, taking out Fordow, and not leaving this wounded regime standing wounded with nuclear weapons capability. There's nothing more dangerous than a wounded regime with nuclear weapons capability from which it can build nuclear weapons.

But what about the threat or the risk, rather, you have to think about this in any kind of use of military force, the risk of a regime that falls? Is that something that we should be overly concerned about? I know it's not an explicit US goal, Netanyahu after Iraq and Afghanistan, we don't want to go there, but it might happen, I suppose, what do you think?

I don't think the regime is collapsing. And I think it's a really, it's a leadership transition and I think ultimately, it's about supporting the Iranian people, millions of whom despise this regime. And over time, giving them the support they need to take back their country and take back the flag as it were. I think regime collapse is always a possibility. I think it's unlikely, certainly in the short term,

Right.

I think we should welcome the end of the Islamic Republic at some point. But at the end of the day, this is not to be done militarily. It's to be done the way Ronald Reagan did, which was providing support to anti-Soviet dissidents during the Cold War.

And, of course, it was the establishment of the Revolutionary government in 1979, which is the source of all of the troubles since then. So if it did fall in some way, and you had some kind of a government, might be some sort of military governments, who knows really? We can't predict. Would it be worse than what we've seen?

No, I mean, I don't think there's anything worse than what we've seen. I think every American should want the end of the Islamic Republic, which is killed in Maine, thousands of Americans over the years. So, yes, the source is the regime, but this regime with nuclear weapons is the most dangerous animal in the kingdom. And Fordow standing without the Americans actually obliterating it is what will allow this regime to emerge from all of this beating that they're taken from the Israelis with the capability pulse still to build nuclear weapons.

What message would it send to the rest of the world if at the end of this conflict, the Iranians do have enrichment capacity at Fordow or elsewhere? What would China and Russia take from that outcome?

Well, I think if President Trump were to obliterate Fordow and end the nuclear weapons capability, it's President Trump's Reagan moment, I think if President Trump were to let Fordow remain standing, it's President Trump's Biden-Afghanistan moment, I think it would be a real blow to the President. I'd think it would leave a stain on his legacy. And the President has been clear, Paul, over and over and over again, he will not let Iran get nuclear weapons. His predecessors couldn't do it. His successors won't do it. It's really his opportunity for legacy and for preserving American safety for really, for decades.

And he's been utterly clear about that goal that Iran cannot get a nuclear weapon as far as I can remember for 10, 15 years. Thank you, Mark Dubowitz, appreciate, always good having you here.

Thanks so much, Paul.

WSJ Opinion: Iran Negotiates with Europe, Rejects Nuke Talks with U.S.

From the award-winning opinion pages of The Wall Street Journal, the Journal Editorial Report sees columnists and members of the Journal Editorial Board debate the major economic, political and cultural issues of the day. 
From the policy debates to the political fights, each week get critical perspective and the analysis you need on developments from Washington.

WSJ Opinion: Iran Negotiates with Europe, Rejects Nuke Talks with U.S.

WSJ Opinion: Journal Editorial Report

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